[AR Standards Discussion] Wrap up of Program Committee member meeting January 31

Thomas Wrobel darkflame at gmail.com
Fri Feb 4 08:43:22 EST 2011

I just like to chip-in and apologize for not being able to follow up
on the conversation here earlier.
Fortunately it seems Jens understood my concerns well and argued them
on my on my behalf.

Just one thing I would like to address though is the easyness of
content creation, because I do think content creation in some regards
should be relatively simple, but I think with AR theres at least two
distinct types of content creation, that separates it somewhat from
the 2d web;

1. Basic "inline" data which is small and doesn't need an external
files of any sort.  The most obvious use of this would just be a
floating billboard - a text annotation to the world. Clearly it would
be a waste of bandwidth to model this separately as a 3d file and load
it in.   All thats, essentially, needed is the text, location
information, and possibly a few other fields.
 I think this sort of AR content should be as simple as possible -
preferably more simple even then making a webpage is today. That is,
more simple then HTML.

2. More elaborate mesh's, modeled in Blender, Max etc, that are
positioned in world-space but have separate files storing their actual
mesh data. I think, while the positioning should be as simple as
above, the data itself isn't ever going to be particularly easy to
create, and will always need a different skillset to html. (all though
I daresay "Google Sketchup" like solutions might emerge to make 3d
creation a simple as possible).

I personally think that html formatting doesn't offer advantages for
either of these creation scenarios.

Where html formatting would be strong would be in a 3rd scenario;
Complex 3d scenes coded by hand from primitives.(rather then by 3d
software). This would be somewhat akin to the structure of webpage in
that elements could be positioned relative or within eachother.
However, I'm not sure I see any thing usefull that can be done in this
scenario. I think the majority of content will fall into the first two

I do think we shouldn't reinvent the wheel, however. Which is why I am
in favour of possibly borrowing elements from CSS where they seem to
fit. ("Left: 50%" might not make much sense in 3D space, but font
handling and styling certainly will still be applicable).


Reviews of anything, by anyone;
Please try out my new site and give feedback :)

On 3 February 2011 05:40, Admin at simulation3d.biz <admin at simulation3d.biz> wrote:
> Hi Phillip, VRsonic in DC do that, i can connect you
> Have a nice day!
> Thank you
> Yohan Baillot
> Augmented Reality consulting
> yohan at simulation3d.biz
> (425) BAILLOT
> On Feb 2, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Philipp Slusallek <slusallek at cs.uni-saarland.de> wrote:
>> Hi Jacques,
>> This sounds extremely interesting indeed. A student tried to get some
>> sound rendering into 3D a while ago, which was OK but we are not really
>> the experts on this. It would be great to join forces here. I have
>> started to look into A2ML but need a bit more time to really understand
>> the approach. Associating audio with 3D objects and having an audio
>> renderer to compute the reverberations in a virtual environment would be
>> just great. We do a lot of realtime ray tracing (which is why our
>> current demonstrators use that for rendering as well) applying this also
>> to global lighting simulations and it would be interesting to apply this
>> also to sound simulations.
>>    Philipp
>> Am 02.02.2011 18:08, schrieb jacques lemordant:
>>> Hi Philipp,
>>> I was supporting XML3D (against X3D)at the last AR Standards meeting in Seoul.
>>>> The goal of XML3D is to embed declarative 3D scene descriptions directly
>>>> into any HTML document via a couple of new HTML elements (just like SVG
>>>> for 2D in HTML5 today). Essentially, we want to enable any Web developer
>>>> to easily start using 3D graphics in any project without leaving his/her
>>>> common programming environment.
>>> We have the same goal with 3D interactive audio and  have defined an XML format called A2ML for it.
>>> it's very similar to SVG with embedded SMIL for synchronization.
>>> Would be nice to put it in HTML5 like with SVG.
>>> We have an A2ML sound engine running on iOS and an iOS AR browser  with content in HTML5 and A2ML.
>>> It's based on the webkit and is able to read an XML POIs format
>>> (So we could probably test XML3D on the iPhone rather easily in the context of an AR application)
>>> <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>>>         xmlns:poap="http://wam.inria.fr/poap/0.1/"
>>>         xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/">
>>>         <poap:Poi rdf:ID="GVAjardinDeVille">
>>>                  <poap:name>Jardin de Ville</poap:name>
>>>                  <poap:coordinates lat="45.1925890" lon="5.726197" ele="217.861"/>
>>>                  <foaf:maker rdf:resource="http://wam.inrialpes.fr/rdf/foaf/Audrey-Colbrant.rdf"/>
>>>                  <poap:update timestamp="2010-11-01T18:17:44Z"/>
>>>                  <poap:panoramic rdf:resource="./resource/panorama/jardinDeVille.jpg" type="hemispherical"/>
>>>                  <poap:content doctype="html5" rdf:resource="./resource/content/jardinDeVille.html"/>
>>>                  <poap:audio rdf:resource="./resource/atmosphere/jardinVilleAtmosphere.mp3"/>
>>>                   <poap:graphics rdf:resource="./resource/atmosphere/jardinVilleAtmosphere.xml3d"/>
>>>                  <poap:triggering radius="5.5" />
>>>                  <poap:visibility radius="4.5" />
>>>                  <poap:channel category="parc"/>
>>>         </poap:Poi>
>>> </rdf:RDF>
>>>> XML3D has been presented to the W3C at the last TPAC meeting in Lyon and
>>>> we have been asked to start a W3C Incubator group preparing possible
>>>> standardization in this area.
>>> A2ML was presented at the last TPAC meeting with a live demo of an ARA application( guidance of visually impaired people in Grenoble with a remote console in Lyon)
>>> We hope to have something like A2ML  standardized one day by the W3C audio working group.
>>> jacques
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